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cherrypicker

Why is PUBG still running so poorly?

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When it comes to PUBG, you always hear about the following complaints: "PUBG is badly optimizied", "The Frametimes are garbage", "Vikendi is runs the worst", "Loot is spawning too late", "Hit Registration is bad", "Lags" and so on. To be blunt, that's true. But why?

 

We know that PUBG is build upon the Unreal Engine 4. From what I've heard it's a generic engine, like a swiss knife. It was definitely not created with BR-Games in mind, be it the rendering of the vast landscapes, the player count, or the netcode. Since Bluehole started with a small team and very limited ressources, they had no other choice but to pick some of the already existing engines and quickly release a game. But now the situation is different. They made tons of money and hired a lot of people.

 

With that being said, what would be the best approach(es) to really improve PUBG?

 

Updating the Engine

 

Epic Games clearly shows with Fortnite that it is indeed possible to create a well optimized BR with the UE4. Yeah, it's their own Engine and they must have modified it a lot, so that shouldn't be a surprise. But the PUBG Devs could do the same. If I'm not mistaken, Epic released at least some BR-specific optimizations to the upstream UE4.

 

PUBG was probably build with Version 4.16 and they backported some changes from later Versions. But what's missing compared to Version 4.21?

 

Also very interesting could be Epic's work on their Vulkan Renderer. Once it gets to certain point, they might as well make it the default on all platforms. And when that happens, Pubg could is that as their new foundation. This could change everything, if they are willing to invest the necessary time and ressources.

 

Switching to another Engine

 

That's even more unlikely than updating the engine, because they would basically end up creating a new game. It's also questionable how well you can preserve the current mechanics (movements, weapons, vehicles etc.)

 

Recently Brendan Greene announced moving to Amsterdam, working on "PUBG Special Projects".  What I find weird is that they require knowledge of the Unity Engine in some of the job offerings. From a quick search it doesn't seem like they could gain anything in particular by switching to Unity. Maybe it's a different game.

 

Creating their own Engine

 

The possibility of this happing is probably zero. But just out of curiosity, what would that look like? I don't think the UE licence would permit forking anything without paying the royalties, but they could at least get inspired by solid parts of the UE4.

 

Assets

 

Back in the day PUBG was accused of using too much assets from the Unreal Store. Is this still a thing? How does this impact the performance ?

 

Playercount

 

You always hear that the UE4 was never intended to work with large amounts of players, let alone 100. Certainly you can perceive a lot more lags, freezes and stuttering with more going on. Just a few quick examples:

 

- If I am running around alone in remote areas, even on Vikendi, everything is super smooth. But if just 2-3 enemies appear, the performance can drop noticably.

- With a full squad driving around in a vehicle while getting shot from another squad is deadly, since everything stutters so much that ADS isn't even working, cancelling or at least heavily delayed.

 

Can someone with knowledge of the UE4 explain how this can be fixed?

 

Others

 

- Even with the effects turned to very low, molotovs cause pretty huge framedrops (like from 140 to 70)

- Certain places like the mansion on Vikendi cause also very poor performance

 

It worries me that all the people from PUBG Corp only mention QoL improvements or new content, even the CEO CH Kim. Correct me if I am wrong, but nobody shared any plans to actually fix these big, long standing issues. I don't think that BRs like Fortnite, CoD, Apex, or BF V Firestorm are a real danger to PUBG, since they target another audience. But what if someone releases a game with similar mechanics to Pubg AND proper optimization?

 

 

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1 hour ago, cherrypicker said:

Can someone with knowledge of the UE4 explain how this can be fixed?

 

If you wanna learn more about UE4 I would suggest reading @Rev0verDrive's Topics and Posts.

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it runs pretty good now compared to how it used to.  but keep in mind that there is quality in graphics and quantity.  a game like tomb raider has quality.  pubg has quantity.  a big open world map that has to be fairly accurately represented at large distances means that LOD cant be adjusted as much as other games.  in other words other games are designed purposefully so that you cant see far distances.  with pubg its crucial that you can see long distance.  in other games that are open world like gta v they can turn down detail on distant objects greatly where as in pubg that would not work as well.  but its come a long way.  on an overclocked 8600k (im using an 8700k at 5ghz) with a 1070 ti i can run mostly high settings above 144hz with screen scale at abotu 90%.  actually could probalby do near 100% screen scaling but the drops below 144 bother me.  but it just is what it is.  besides the version of UE4 that most devs use isnt really optmized well for large open worlds.  its sort of a jack of all trades.  and pubg corp doesnt have the same resources as rockstar etc

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Game has been optimized recently . 

When i started playing on my laptop with 960GTX i got around 40-45 fps . After 5-6 months i got 60 - 65 . Still some fps drops here and there, but muuch better. 

 

For it's graphics, still poorly optimized, but ok-ish. Now i don't care though cuz i have a better pc :)) 

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On 3/27/2019 at 8:31 AM, bobhumplick said:

it runs pretty good now compared to how it used to.  but keep in mind that there is quality in graphics and quantity.  a game like tomb raider has quality.  pubg has quantity.  a big open world map that has to be fairly accurately represented at large distances means that LOD cant be adjusted as much as other games.  in other words other games are designed purposefully so that you cant see far distances.  with pubg its crucial that you can see long distance.

 

On 3/27/2019 at 8:45 AM, phizzzix said:

Game has been optimized recently .

For it's graphics, still poorly optimized, but ok-ish. Now i don't care though cuz i have a better pc :)) 

 

I know that.

 

Sure, it's not like they were sitting on their hands and did nothing, but PUBG has still a long way to go. Really important are the overall FPS, Frametimes and the Lag/Slowness when you hotdrop with many other players.

 

Yes, it runs pretty well with an overclocked Skylake/Coffeelake CPU + Overclocked RAM + GTX 1070 (or above). But not everyone has this kind of PC or knows how to safely overclock, like many of my buddies. And holy moly, PUBG runs like a** on not so recent builds with stock settings. But other BRs like Fortnite or Apex run very smooth on the same PCs. After all the time that has passed, money they earned and people they hired it is absolutely fair reasonable to expect them bringing PUBG to the next stage and finally get rid of low hanging fruits.

 

And the only way for that to happen would be an engine update and a Vulkan renderer, there's just no other way than rebuilding the game from scratch.

 

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3 hours ago, cherrypicker said:

And the only way for that to happen would be an engine update and a Vulkan renderer, there's just no other way than rebuilding the game from scratch.

 

That's pretty much rebuilding the game from scratch.

 

Updating a project to a new build isn't easy. Straight vanilla 4.16 to 4.22 would break and 99% of your code wouldn't work. You have to do build hops.

4.16 -> 4.17 .... fix deprecations

4.17 -> 4.18 .... fix deprecations

4.18 -> 4.19 .... fix deprecations

etc.

 

6 Build hops to 4.22. You might be able to say jump 4.19 to 4.21, but there's still an ass load of deprecations, core functionality overhauls, code path changes, class removals, class renames, class input/output changes and so forth.

 

v4.17 (23 deprecations and or changes to function, class, code path)

v4.18 (15 removals of deprecated functions, function params, classes, code paths)

v4.19 (9 deprecations/changes ... * right page column has link to section)

v4.20 (15 deprecations/changes/removals ... * right page column has link to section)

v4.21 (15 deprecations/changes/removals ... * right page column has link to section)

v4.22 (72 search finds for deprecate/d in the notes.)

 

===================

 

Hot drop lag has more to do with player latencies than anything else. During NA peak times I can hotdrop with 15+ and not have a single issue. Do it again in the late hours and it's a lag fest. Most of the other players on at that time are OOR with 200+ pings.

 

FX-8350, 16GB RAM, RX-580 ... 8-16ms ping

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Just now, KahlanEL said:

At least 15-20 fps drop after this patch. Good job. 

 

hit the training map and get a baseline. The training map uses the exact same core code as the rest of the game. Only difference is there's no zone and loot spawning system.

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@ Rev0verDrive

 

Yeah, they would have to start from the beginning, but you in particular know that there's no way around it. At least if PUBG Corp is interested in improving our experience, lowering the system requirements and attracting more people to their game.

 

The newer iterations of UE4 got some improvements that help BRs, so even if they would ignore Vulkan, we could profit from it.

 

@ KahlanEL

 

Never experienced that, unless it has something to do with their anti-cheat software. Maybe they changed something under the hood and you need to regenerate the shader cache. That would mean after some playing the issues would disappear on their own. That's just a theory though.

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I was getting 160-170+ fps/2k res/ 144hz a couple days ago while playing. Bullet reg is fine. Gun fighting has been predictable for a long time now. Sounds like you don't understand the game or your lack of skill is blaming other things. I have a lot of fun.

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10 minutes ago, cherrypicker said:

@ Rev0verDrive

 

Yeah, they would have to start from the beginning, but you in particular know that there's no way around it. At least if PUBG Corp is interested in improving our experience, lowering the system requirements and attracting more people to their game.

 

The newer iterations of UE4 got some improvements that help BRs, so even if they would ignore Vulkan, we could profit from it.

 

Not knowing exactly what optimizations they have done limits what I can/would suggest. But doing an update that's worth the cost + time investment would mean V4.22 or v4.23 (soon to release). That update would take at least 6 months to a year to finalize. Replication Graph would be a huge benefit as would a lot of the generalized engine optimizations.

 

*note: the rep graph release in 4.20 isn't production ready. v4.21 gets it there.

 

Vulkan in UE4 isn't ready for PC. It's good to go for mobile and in some cases console.

 

Vulkan Status thread - UE4 forums (Engine Dev feedback)

https://forums.unrealengine.com/development-discussion/rendering/85035-vulkan-status

 

* Official UE4 Road Map

https://trello.com/b/TTAVI7Ny/ue4-roadmap

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Thanks for info & links, though I have the vulkan status thread already bookmarked. 😀

 

Vulkan is at least the default on Linux since 4.21, I'm sure the other platforms will follow someday in the future.

 

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16 minutes ago, cherrypicker said:

Thanks for info & links, though I have the vulkan status thread already bookmarked. 😀

 

Vulkan is at least the default on Linux since 4.21, I'm sure the other platforms will follow someday in the future.

 

 

Vulkan on Linux isn't stable though. Especially for large multiplayer projects. From what I've read it crashes when under heavy load or reverts back to opengl.

 

It is on the future roadmap though. Unknown release date or build.

"Full support for UE4’s high-end rendering features utilizing the Vulkan API on both Windows and Linux including parallel rendering to take advantage of all available CPU cores."

 

PubG needs the "high-end rendering features" for it to be even remotely considered. Even then you're most likely looking at DX12 support only. And from what I've read the majority of the benefits are seen on AMD GPU's.

 

-----------

 

Personal experience with the UE update process..... just added info.

 

So I have a prototype BR game mode that I've been goofing with. I've got the zone system and the loot spawning system all setup in multiplayer. One of the client performance tweaks I want to do is to have each client delete its copies of the loot spawner actors from their maps on load. On large maps that could be thousands of actors. Loot spawners are run server-side, so they aren't needed on the client end. They just waste memory and cpu on the client. The problem is that clients don't have authority to delete actors that they don't spawn. You can run the logic, but it's simply ignored by the engine. UE 4.22 adds this functionality.

 

So a few days ago I attempted to update the project from 4.21 to 4.22 .... loads of deprecation. The new version won't even boot. In order for it to update properly I have to disassemble a lot of logic, then update, then rebuild the logic. Another issue is now the old build (4.21) has forced deprecations. So I had to reconfigure things on the 4.21 build to actually work again.

 

TLDR updating can be / is a pain in the ass even if you have very little in your project.

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I was just thinking to myself last night how WELL the game is running at the moment. In my opinion the game is as good as it's ever been (cheating situation aside). 

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Same for me its just gotten better and better and better since early early access the performance goes up every patch for me ( bar maybe a couple of mini patches that were quickly fixed ) 

 

As for people scratching their heads about a game that came and broke down boundaries on what was possible ( 64km maps, 100 players, full ballistics etc ) 

 

"duuuuhhh why does this not run as good as CSGO ??"

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In my case game runs better than it ever did on gtx1060 6gb. Is it perfect? Hell no. But it's okayish.

You can get consistent 80+fps, 100+ outside of gunfights. 

One thing to note about PUBG, it's nearly unplayable without an SSD and some solid amount of RAM. At least 8GB of DDR4.
Even CPU is important in this game, but I found SSD to be the most important component.

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17 minutes ago, Boodgemeister said:

but I found SSD to be the most important component.

 

That can be used generally across all computing in any area.  its the single component that makes a PC feel and respond much faster.

 

its like the day I got my dad on ADSL way back, from dial up.  I got him hooked up and he was blown away that the antivirus  was updated in 2 seconds rather than 5 minutes.  his usual process was to dial the internet and then go and make a cup of tea because that's how long it would have him waiting.  

 

and SSD is like that people get that same feeling of unprecedented upgrade to performance.

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Posted (edited)

I have PUBG on a fairly high end SSD.....

 

9700K RTX 2080. Play at 4K 60Hz...

 

For months, I never ever dropped below 60fps, EVER!

 

Now, since latest patch, whenever I get in a gunfight, down to 30-45 fps, and that is to say nothing of the utterly jank gun play and overall mechanics which has been jank since day 1.

 

WTF!?

 

What is wrong with Bluehole? Do they want their game to fail? Have they employed a bunch of saboteurs?

 

Absolute idiot company.....

 

UNINSTALLED!

 

(guess I won't be burning any more bucks on pointless skins for my avatar either)

Edited by MatDerKater

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Mine runs very well, only issue are the hackers and the FPS affecting rate of fire.

 

As for your graphics, try setting everything to 'ultra' and then putting just 'shadows' on 'low' works very well and looks the same IMO.

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I don't think PUBG performance is that bad anymore. You'll be getting worse frames in a lot of modern games

 

The worst thing in PUBG always was and always will be the desync. Nothing worse than one laggy bastard ruining your 25 minute game by killing you as he peeks on the screen (sometimes before lol)

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