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TheBasicBro

Big Problem! ADS and Soft Aim Does Not Line Up Properly

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36 minutes ago, TheBasicBro said:

I don't mean to be the bearer of bad news, but they have had a lot of issues and this is definitely one of them. I appreciate that you took the time to attempt an explanation though. I'm not sure why you're so passionate about this glitch though. Even the guys who have served in the military say it's not realistic. You naturally focus on your target when you raise your gun up to look down the sights. It's a load of bs from development to say that this is realistic lol. I haven't met someone who's had such a hard on for poor targeting reticles.

 

I'm not particularly passionate about it, if you recall I left a simple post and you responded telling me I'm wrong for some reason when I'm not. 

 

The reason I took the time to make the video was because on the previous page you linked to a WackyJacky101 clip as proof that this didn't exist in the PC version.  It was your claim that this "bug" didn't exist there, so I thought by showing you that it existed a year ago when the game first came out on the PC version and still exists in the PC version right now and it's been like that since Day One on Xbox as well, in hopes that you would come to the realization that it was an intended feature.

 

But alas, now you seem to have changed the argument a bit, something about some ex-military guy saying it's not realistic... of course it's not 100% realistic, it's attempting to simulate realism, but the only way you'd truly have a realistic aiming is if you were playing a VR game with a gun controller that moved 1:1 with the controller in the game and had an approximate ADS function when you raise your gun.  The way the game simulates you needing to move your head and gun is by moving your reticle.  Does the guy who served think it should work more like Call of Duty/Battlefield or any other game?  Because that ain't realistic either.

 

"I haven't met someone who's had such a hard on for poor targeting reticles."

 

Maybe you're having a hard time reading but I never expressed whether I like or dislike the aiming..  by me explaining that it isn't a bug doesn't mean I like the way it works, it's simply a fact that it isn't a bug, therefore it would make more sense for you to push this discussion in a different section of the forum as a game change suggestion.  I don't doubt that others would agree with you; people have been making suggestions to change this game to have mechanics similar to other FPS games since it came out.

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I have to say I have noticed the difference (but IDK either way I played for ages without it being an issue) but also one thing I noticed when I looked into it is that it (the different aim points for different aim modes) is worse at close range target and reduces as you aim on points further away from you.

Just based on the fact that it is worse the closer you are to the aim point you use to check out the difference says to me that the devs are using flawed logic saying its caused by the gun aiming at different points due to your movement of the weapon. If that is the case then the amount of deviation should be greater the further out you aim but its not, or at least in the little bit of fiddling I have done it was not the case the deviation was greatly noticeable at 2 to 5 meters away but when I used something like a hay bail 50 to 100 meters away the aim points seemed to be the same.

 

My view on this has changed since my first post 

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9 hours ago, DANGEROUS JEZZA said:

I have to say I have noticed the difference (but IDK either way I played for ages without it being an issue) but also one thing I noticed when I looked into it is that it (the different aim points for different aim modes) is worse at close range target and reduces as you aim on points further away from you.

Just based on the fact that it is worse the closer you are to the aim point you use to check out the difference says to me that the devs are using flawed logic saying its caused by the gun aiming at different points due to your movement of the weapon. If that is the case then the amount of deviation should be greater the further out you aim but its not, or at least in the little bit of fiddling I have done it was not the case the deviation was greatly noticeable at 2 to 5 meters away but when I used something like a hay bail 50 to 100 meters away the aim points seemed to be the same.

 

My view on this has changed since my first post 

Thank you for giving your feedback in detail later. I'm not sure if @PUBG_RoboDanjal has had the development team look into this more at all. I'm not bad by any means and have no problem killing players, but things like this bug me in game when it just doesn't quite make sense.

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9 hours ago, TheBasicBro said:

Thank you for giving your feedback in detail later. I'm not sure if RoboDanjal has had the development team look into this more at all. I'm not bad by any means and have no problem killing players, but things like this bug me in game when it just doesn't quite make sense.

Happy to share my observations especially when I waded into this early on in this thread and just pretty much took the dev's response for gospel and didn't bother to look at it as I saw that it was something I have been dealing with since release. But when I looked at it and noticed the deviation seemed to be greater for close range targets and less for targets further away well that just didn't fit the logic of drift due to gun movement because a 1 or 2 degree difference in direction the barrel of a gun points would result in greater aim point deviation at long range than at close range.

At the least this feature needs some tweaking to bring it more in line with reality, for example having a scope fitted would make it harder to snap onto a target accurately at close range than the same gun fitted with iron sights or a red dot, so therefore the feature should better represent this furthermore the feature should equate to being out by a greater margin at long range than at close range.

Also the feature should not produce the exact same deviation every time if it is due to movement induced by the character moving the gun. If it is exactly the same every time then based on pure logic one can argue that in reality it would be easy to compensate for because it is a consistent error produced by the gun movement so all you need to do is learn to compensate and remove the error.

I find myself in a weird position in that I still don't give to much of a toss about this issue but cannot help but notice the flawed logic in the Implementation of this feature. 

How can it be an error due to gun movement when the error should therefore be compounded the further out I'm aiming.

At a guess I would say its about 2 degrees out at around 2 meters, now for those who don't get it imagine 2 lines parallel the continue out into the distance and never get closer and never get further apart.  But if those same two lines are not parallel and both angle away from each other at  2 degrees then as they get further away they get further apart so a 1-2 inch to the left deviation and 2 meters becomes a lot greater when its at 200 meters.  This dose not happen so I'm left with the only plausible conclusion that the Feature is flawed and there should be a much greater offset at long range to what we now notice at short range.  Please fix this feature and make it more realistic if my sights are off buy 2 inches at 2 meters then at 200 meters my sights should be off target by at least 2 meters but they seem to be more accurate.

 

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13 hours ago, DANGEROUS JEZZA said:

Happy to share my observations especially when I waded into this early on in this thread and just pretty much took the dev's response for gospel and didn't bother to look at it as I saw that it was something I have been dealing with since release. But when I looked at it and noticed the deviation seemed to be greater for close range targets and less for targets further away well that just didn't fit the logic of drift due to gun movement because a 1 or 2 degree difference in direction the barrel of a gun points would result in greater aim point deviation at long range than at close range.

At the least this feature needs some tweaking to bring it more in line with reality, for example having a scope fitted would make it harder to snap onto a target accurately at close range than the same gun fitted with iron sights or a red dot, so therefore the feature should better represent this furthermore the feature should equate to being out by a greater margin at long range than at close range.

Also the feature should not produce the exact same deviation every time if it is due to movement induced by the character moving the gun. If it is exactly the same every time then based on pure logic one can argue that in reality it would be easy to compensate for because it is a consistent error produced by the gun movement so all you need to do is learn to compensate and remove the error.

I find myself in a weird position in that I still don't give to much of a toss about this issue but cannot help but notice the flawed logic in the Implementation of this feature. 

How can it be an error due to gun movement when the error should therefore be compounded the further out I'm aiming.

At a guess I would say its about 2 degrees out at around 2 meters, now for those who don't get it imagine 2 lines parallel the continue out into the distance and never get closer and never get further apart.  But if those same two lines are not parallel and both angle away from each other at  2 degrees then as they get further away they get further apart so a 1-2 inch to the left deviation and 2 meters becomes a lot greater when its at 200 meters.  This dose not happen so I'm left with the only plausible conclusion that the Feature is flawed and there should be a much greater offset at long range to what we now notice at short range.  Please fix this feature and make it more realistic if my sights are off buy 2 inches at 2 meters then at 200 meters my sights should be off target by at least 2 meters but they seem to be more accurate.

 

That makes sense from a realistic perspective. I'm glad you see that it's flawed, hopefully they at least see this and make some kind of correction whether they make it more realistic or not. Either way they need to take the flawed logic out of aiming down scopes like you'd mentioned above. @PUBG_RoboDanjal

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Still doesn't explain why switching between first and third person also moves your reticle over. You're simply changing your view. No weapon adjustment from the hip to shoulder. Just changing the camera. It doesn't add up

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On 5/18/2018 at 4:50 PM, TheBasicBro said:

When aiming down sights with a scope attached, the reticle noticeably does not line up with where you place your soft aim reticle prior to aiming down your sights. It changes your aim by at least a quarter of an inch on the screen. I noticed this when I was looking out the window and on Erangel and the window sill crosshatch was in my way after looking down the scope, yet in soft aim it wasn't. I don't have any screen caps, but it's easy to test this and try it out for yourself.

 

Anyone else notice this, or now that I've mentioned it, notice this issue?

 

Stop playing TPP and you won't have the problem, TPP is for girls :)

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3 hours ago, Charleh said:

 

Stop playing TPP and you won't have the problem, TPP is for girls :)

 

I make the point that this happens in FPP as well if you read the thread or watched the video... Seems like you just want to try and start sh!%.

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3 minutes ago, TheBasicBro said:

 

I make the point that this happens in FPP as well if you read the thread or watched the video... Seems like you just want to try and start sh!%.

 

Relax, it was just a wind-up (though I do believe TPP is for girls).

 

To be honest I'm not sure what the fuss is, I never had a time the crosshairs not lining up perfectly caused me to do something I didn't want to do. Any close range combat in PUBG on Xbox is clunky because controllers are just a poor way to play an FPS game.

 

If you are somehow trying to quick scope on Xbox PUBG then I wish you all the luck in the world!

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6 minutes ago, Charleh said:

 

Relax, it was just a wind-up (though I do believe TPP is for girls).

 

To be honest I'm not sure what the fuss is, I never had a time the crosshairs not lining up perfectly caused me to do something I didn't want to do. Any close range combat in PUBG on Xbox is clunky because controllers are just a poor way to play an FPS game.

 

If you are somehow trying to quick scope on Xbox PUBG then I wish you all the luck in the world!

 

 

Haha aight. K watch this video man  You'll see how zooming in messes with the reticle positioning. It does not line up. Another guy, DANGEROUS JEZZA also noted that when you ADS it shifts the same amount whether you're enemy is 10m away 100m away or 200m away. If it was to be realistic, it would factor in the angle from further away. It is definitely a bug.

 

 

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5 minutes ago, TheBasicBro said:

 

 

Haha aight. K watch this video man  You'll see how zooming in messes with the reticle positioning. It does not line up. Another guy, DANGEROUS JEZZA also noted that when you ADS it shifts the same amount whether you're enemy is 10m away 100m away or 200m away. If it was to be realistic, it would factor in the angle from further away. It is definitely a bug.

 

 

 

It's easy to see what's happening from this video.

 

Your camera facing/aim position is staying constant but because of the over-the-shoulder switch the camera position is slightly above/to the right of the 1st person position.

 

Since a camera translation has been done your crosshair placement is also translated by that same amount - so the camera moves up and to the right 5 inches and so does your crosshair.

 

I don't understand how this can happen in FPP though - there's no camera translation between non ADS/ADS in FPP. Do you have a video for that?

 

Also, why is this a big problem - we are talking a few inches at ANY range. If you are aiming 200m away you are going to be aiming at the same position just 5 inches up/right from it.

 

Any videos of the same effect at long range? I can bet that the bullets impact almost the same spot.

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Just now, Charleh said:

 

It's easy to see what's happening from this video.

 

Your camera facing/aim position is staying constant but because of the over-the-shoulder switch the camera position is slightly above/to the right of the 1st person position.

 

Since a camera translation has been done your crosshair placement is also translated by that same amount - so the camera moves up and to the right 5 inches and so does your crosshair.

 

I don't understand how this can happen in FPP though - there's no camera translation between non ADS/ADS in FPP. Do you have a video for that?

 

There is an FPP part to this video as well if you watch all of it. regardless, this shouldn't happen. I have never seen this in any AAA game. Battlefront 2 from TPP  and FPP to ADS does not do this and COD from FPP to ADS does not do this either. Try it for yourself when you play next. It will start to become bothersome.

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Just now, TheBasicBro said:

 

There is an FPP part to this video as well if you watch all of it. regardless, this shouldn't happen. I have never seen this in any AAA game. Battlefront 2 from TPP  and FPP to ADS does not do this and COD from FPP to ADS does not do this either. Try it for yourself when you play next. It will start to become bothersome.

 

I won't be playing TPP and I've not noticed this - also don't think it's a big problem at all.

 

I'd rather they concentrated on fixing the streaming/asset loading etc and make the queues healthy before they mess with something that is barely going to make a difference.

 

Can you honestly recall a time that this has caused you to lose a firefight?

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1 hour ago, Charleh said:

 

I won't be playing TPP and I've not noticed this - also don't think it's a big problem at all.

 

I'd rather they concentrated on fixing the streaming/asset loading etc and make the queues healthy before they mess with something that is barely going to make a difference.

 

Can you honestly recall a time that this has caused you to lose a firefight?

 

Yes, multiple times when I am in a fight and ads on the head from across a house inside. It puts you far enough to the side that a first shot can miss putting you at a disadvantage. Whether or not it's a big problem or not. It's an issue. No use arguing that it isn't there. I can play fine without it too and rack up multiple kills per game as well, but these immediate issues bother me since it's a glitch that happens every single time you ADS. Bugs that happen on occasion are annoying, however this isn't a bug that happens once in a while. Even Shroud has noticed this and pointed it out as a pain point.

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On 5/21/2018 at 1:15 PM, PUBG_RoboDanjal said:

I have asked you once to refrain from tagging us directly in your posts, as you have done so again you have been given a warning. 

 


I don't understand what you mean by "both left and right with different perspectives", could you please elaborate on this? 

Regardless of what other games have done, when you change to ADS your weapon moves, when the weapon moves so will the aim point.

how about you remove the tags from the lobby so you cant be tagged in a post, if you are a forum admin you have that power, how ever you are not hitler, so if you give people the power to tag you then its not a warning or ban able offense weather you like it or not, why am i speaking about this? because you admins give out warnings for things that are just stupid, spam?  in a community forum where you can post on any thread you like, its not spam its an opinion and i have the right to post, and if its negative critisism towards this game, well it deserves improving so you are going to negative feedback.  Just like the logic in this stupid ads system.  RIP

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On 7/4/2018 at 4:13 PM, TheBasicBro said:

 

Yes, multiple times when I am in a fight and ads on the head from across a house inside. It puts you far enough to the side that a first shot can miss putting you at a disadvantage. Whether or not it's a big problem or not. It's an issue. No use arguing that it isn't there. I can play fine without it too and rack up multiple kills per game as well, but these immediate issues bother me since it's a glitch that happens every single time you ADS. Bugs that happen on occasion are annoying, however this isn't a bug that happens once in a while. Even Shroud has noticed this and pointed it out as a pain point.

 

I want clips next time it happens. I reckon I'll be waiting a long time.

 

Wanna see these people lining up 400m headshots then ADSing and going "damn if only ADS didn't take your aim off by 2 inches"

 

For example - who the hell is getting perfect hip-fire line ups and scoping in when these are the standard gunfights in PUBG?

 

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/charlehpock/video/54881389 (damn level 3 helmets)

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1 hour ago, fluffl0rs said:

 

I want clips next time it happens. I reckon I'll be waiting a long time.

 

Wanna see these people lining up 400m headshots then ADSing and going "damn if only ADS didn't take your aim off by 2 inches"

 

For example - who the hell is getting perfect hip-fire line ups and scoping in when these are the standard gunfights in PUBG?

 

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/charlehpock/video/54881389 (damn level 3 helmets)

 

This happens all the time in CQC. Every game possible known to be an FPS game lines up directly where you have your reticle. Not to the left, or the right of the character model depending on your perspective. Yes, recoil is not as predictable, however a targeting reticle should be programmed to be properly lined up. I don't nod my head down to ADS in real life. I lift the gun up to where I'm looking.

 

See the video I posted in this thread demonstrating the off center reticle before commenting.

 

 

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1 hour ago, Silmarillis said:

how about you remove the tags from the lobby so you cant be tagged in a post, if you are a forum admin you have that power, how ever you are not hitler, so if you give people the power to tag you then its not a warning or ban able offense weather you like it or not, why am i speaking about this? because you admins give out warnings for things that are just stupid, spam?  in a community forum where you can post on any thread you like, its not spam its an opinion and i have the right to post, and if its negative critisism towards this game, well it deserves improving so you are going to negative feedback.  Just like the logic in this stupid ads system.  RIP

 

Thank you for bringing that up. It's happened twice to me. Next time I tag multiple people I'm mentioning to see something on my post I get a permanent ban.

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47 minutes ago, TheBasicBro said:

 

This happens all the time in CQC. Every game possible known to be an FPS game lines up directly where you have your reticle. Not to the left, or the right of the character model depending on your perspective. Yes, recoil is not as predictable, however a targeting reticle should be programmed to be properly lined up. I don't nod my head down to ADS in real life. I lift the gun up to where I'm looking.

 

See the video I posted in this thread demonstrating the off center reticle before commenting.

 

 

Again, another "laboratory conditions" ads demo and not a gunfight where someone loses because of this so called issue.

 

Please provide evidence of this affecting someone switching from hip to ads and missing shots because of it.

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52 minutes ago, fluffl0rs said:

Again, another "laboratory conditions" ads demo and not a gunfight where someone loses because of this so called issue.

 

Please provide evidence of this affecting someone switching from hip to ads and missing shots because of it.

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/world-ceres/video/57087230

 

 technically I didn’t miss because of it, but you can tell I was almost killed here.

 

lol jk I just want everyone to see how I treat campers ????

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38 minutes ago, WORLD CERES said:

https://xboxdvr.com/gamer/world-ceres/video/57087230

 

 technically I didn’t miss because of it, but you can tell I was almost killed here.

 

lol jk I just want everyone to see how I treat campers ????

 

I mean I don't wanna be the first to point out that in combat this ADS offset nonsense is never going to make a difference.

 

Example:

 

image.png.17b1044f95638e411e2bc143325db07d.png

 

That's where you started ADSing - notice how you actually hit him due to hip-fire transition.

 

And this is where after him jiggling around and you spraying/adjusting your aim the final couple of hits went down:

 

image.png.1516ff3285392f77cc1ef387b889141a.png

 

So basically, this is never ever going to make a difference. This is the point I'm making, in 10 million PUBG firefights I'd imagine this to make a bit of a difference maybe once where you are behind someone and need to quickscope them in the head and they are completely still and you aim at the top right of their head.

 

Not worth the dev effort really.

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3 minutes ago, fluffl0rs said:

 

I mean I don't wanna be the first to point out that in combat this ADS offset nonsense is never going to make a difference.

 

Example:

 

image.png.17b1044f95638e411e2bc143325db07d.png

 

That's where you started ADSing - notice how you actually hit him due to hip-fire transition.

 

And this is where after him jiggling around and you spraying/adjusting your aim the final couple of hits went down:

 

image.png.1516ff3285392f77cc1ef387b889141a.png

 

So basically, this is never ever going to make a difference. This is the point I'm making, in 10 million PUBG firefights I'd imagine this to make a bit of a difference maybe once where you are behind someone and need to quickscope them in the head and they are completely still and you aim at the top right of their head.

 

Not worth the dev effort really.

Well from what I see here even if there was a difference, it’s very minimal.

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1 minute ago, WORLD CERES said:

Well from what I see here even if there was a difference, it’s very minimal.

 

People still going on like this change is going to fix the game and turn them into killing machines and that it's stopping them from getting chicken.

 

Same as analog movement - neither of them are going to really change the feel - the analog movement has done almost bugger all except apparently make it a fraction easier to navigate houses (though I never had a problem with that anyway) and prevent us from sprinting in diagonals.

 

At the moment it's a step backwards - when they re-establish the diagonals it will still feel almost exactly the same.

 

Completely pointless whining about features everyone thinks they need but no-one really needs and pulling dev time away from CPU optimisation and bug fixes.

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1 minute ago, fluffl0rs said:

 

People still going on like this change is going to fix the game and turn them into killing machines and that it's stopping them from getting chicken.

 

Same as analog movement - neither of them are going to really change the feel - the analog movement has done almost bugger all except apparently make it a fraction easier to navigate houses (though I never had a problem with that anyway) and prevent us from sprinting in diagonals.

 

At the moment it's a step backwards - when they re-establish the diagonals it will still feel almost exactly the same.

 

Completely pointless whining about features everyone thinks they need but no-one really needs and pulling dev time away from CPU optimisation and bug fixes.

^^^ This!!!

 

i would be fine with the way the movement was before, I liked being able to run left and right while moving forward.

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2 hours ago, fluffl0rs said:

Again, another "laboratory conditions" ads demo and not a gunfight where someone loses because of this so called issue.

 

Please provide evidence of this affecting someone switching from hip to ads and missing shots because of it.

 

This is to prove that ADS is off center. It's not proving losing or not, it's proving that ADS clearly has a programmed bug. I have adjusted to this bug, however it's annoying seeing these issues. I'm showing that there is a bug with going into ADS from FPP & TPP.

 

 

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